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Post by Gopal on Feb 24, 2021 4:50:06 GMT
you said illusion of separation = suffering. How is it? Since one believes in separation that is actually causing him to suffer, yes?Probably best not to use the term 'causes,' because really, nothing appearing in the story actually causes anything else to happen in the story, but yes, where there is an erroneous belief in separation, there is the potential for suffering.
Separation though is far more than just a singular 'belief.' It's deep...all encompassing. You don't just see beyond separation by finding a way not to 'believe in it' anymore. That would be a conceptual understanding only. Separation must be realized to be false.
>>where there is an erroneous belief in separation, there is the potential for suffering.<< That's what called as cause. |
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Post by muttley on Feb 24, 2021 15:32:48 GMT
I have a question: All thoughts are vibrating forms of energy appearing. So how do resistant thoughts attract negative/non-desirable (need to use labels here) manifestations but good thoughts or even just observing non labelling/allowing. -create more flow, better manifestations, easier life? I think we all agree that this is the case right? Even if nobody is controlling the thoughts, we can see that one leads to another??? Over time I've come to appreciate the powerful simplicity of the LOA. That's an easy answer to this question, that it's the LOA, right?
But the world of form has more than one "law". Perhaps a metaphor might help: imagine you plant a seed from an orange. Would you expect to get an apple tree? And what if you planted it out in the desert where there's no rain, or in a cold climate. Would you expect it to sprout?
We can suspend the most central of questions - the nature of the SVP - for the purposes of understanding how focusing our attention leads to certain dynamics and how those dynamics lead to certain types of outcomes. We focus that attention on what interests us. Our interests appear to us in a process of coalescing. If you watch thoughts as a meditative process, you can become familiar with a sort of horizon where interests emerge, seemingly from what we might refer to as the subconscious. Witnessing the process of that emergence can bring into the forefront of your mind what was previously submerged, ie, you become conscious of content and dynamic you were previously unconscious of.
So. I digress. 
If you find your focus drifting unconsciously to negative thoughts and emotions, there's an underlying reason for that. Find the reason, and you manifest a provisional appearance of control over that process.
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Post by Figgles on Feb 24, 2021 17:42:04 GMT
Probably best not to use the term 'causes,' because really, nothing appearing in the story actually causes anything else to happen in the story, but yes, where there is an erroneous belief in separation, there is the potential for suffering.
Separation though is far more than just a singular 'belief.' It's deep...all encompassing. You don't just see beyond separation by finding a way not to 'believe in it' anymore. That would be a conceptual understanding only. Separation must be realized to be false.
>>where there is an erroneous belief in separation, there is the potential for suffering.<< That's what called as cause. The erroneous belief and the suffering are 'correlated' only. For one to 'actually' cause the other, would mean separation is 'actually' the case. The 'in the dream view' is of causation, but waking up/liberation means seeing beyond that. |
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Post by Gopal on Feb 25, 2021 1:16:09 GMT
I have a question: All thoughts are vibrating forms of energy appearing. So how do resistant thoughts attract negative/non-desirable (need to use labels here) manifestations but good thoughts or even just observing non labelling/allowing. -create more flow, better manifestations, easier life? I think we all agree that this is the case right? Even if nobody is controlling the thoughts, we can see that one leads to another??? Over time I've come to appreciate the powerful simplicity of the LOA. That's an easy answer to this question, that it's the LOA, right?
But the world of form has more than one "law". Perhaps a metaphor might help: imagine you plant a seed from an orange. Would you expect to get an apple tree? And what if you planted it out in the desert where there's no rain, or in a cold climate. Would you expect it to sprout?
We can suspend the most central of questions - the nature of the SVP - for the purposes of understanding how focusing our attention leads to certain dynamics and how those dynamics lead to certain types of outcomes. We focus that attention on what interests us. Our interests appear to us in a process of coalescing. If you watch thoughts as a meditative process, you can become familiar with a sort of horizon where interests emerge, seemingly from what we might refer to as the subconscious. Witnessing the process of that emergence can bring into the forefront of your mind what was previously submerged, ie, you become conscious of content and dynamic you were previously unconscious of.
So. I digress.
If you find your focus drifting unconsciously to negative thoughts and emotions, there's an underlying reason for that. Find the reason, and you manifest a provisional appearance of control over that process.
Law of attraction says 'like attracts like'. Reality creation says 'belief creates the reality'. The simple question whether it's true? It's 100 percent true ! |
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Post by Gopal on Feb 25, 2021 1:18:31 GMT
>>where there is an erroneous belief in separation, there is the potential for suffering.<< That's what called as cause. . For one to 'actually' cause the other, would mean separation is 'actually' the case. The 'in the dream view' is of causation, but waking up/liberation means seeing beyond that. Then you are saying separation is not the reason we are suffering. But you know that's false. We are suffering only when we identify ourselves to be something else other than who we are really. |
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Post by Figgles on Feb 25, 2021 3:26:16 GMT
The erroneous belief and the suffering are 'correlated' only. For one to 'actually' cause the other, would mean separation is 'actually' the case. The 'in the dream view' is of causation, but waking up/liberation means seeing beyond that. Then you are saying separation is not the reason we are suffering. But you know that's false. We are suffering only when we identify ourselves to be something else other than who we are really. One is not causal to the other. They go hand in hand. |
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