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Post by Esponja on Feb 19, 2021 4:47:46 GMT
This kind of is what singer is saying.. love it all, watch what arises, love it and let go... surrender.. That message is not without value. Relative peace is no small thing. But, so long as there is an SVP, trying to love it all, trying to let go, trying to surrender, that relative relief will remain fleeting.
True surrender is an absence.... of trying to feel better....of trying to find peace....of trying to let go, trying to see the world differently than I am seeing it.
It's not impossible that in a moment of practice that is aimed at trying to augment experience, the intender/intent could fall away and become absent, but the practice itself, being for the purpose of betterment of experience, does by it's very nature, have "a person who is not satisfied with his experience," there, at it's crux.
Yes there’s a type of layering. The ego tricks us into thinking that’s more auspicious... |
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Post by Esponja on Feb 19, 2021 14:04:29 GMT
Just posting this here as not sure where else to, does anyone know why I can’t all of a sudden be logged into the ST forum and this one at the same time any longer?
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Post by Gopal on Feb 19, 2021 14:14:24 GMT
Just posting this here as not sure where else to, does anyone know why I can’t all of a sudden be logged into the ST forum and this one at the same time any longer? You can If you used the same email id. |
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Post by Figgles on Feb 19, 2021 17:26:20 GMT
Yes, and that change is 'no suffering.'
Which really means, no more imagined SVP...no more mental overlay upon an arising, appearing condition that says, "this is intolerable...this is fundamentally wrong...this should not be appearing as it is."
That is the most significant of experiential changes...it makes all others pale in comparison. Absent the SVP and that mental overlay, all conditions become fundamentally perfect.
This kind of is what singer is saying.. love it all, watch what arises, love it and let go... surrender.. Just wanted to come back to this one;
When the seeker is trying to love it all, trying to surrender, accept, allow, what he's mistakingly aiming for, is to shift his personal dislike of a particular situation to a personal liking of the situation.
That's not what acceptance/allowance is....rather, there is an absence behind true surrender, acceptance, allowance, vs. a presence of personal likeing.
It's entirely possible for personal dislike of something to be arising, amidst fundamental acceptance. Included in fundamental acceptance is also the personal dislike. But where there is fundamental acceptance, judgements only extend so deep, because that which lies fundamental, (awakened awareness) is at the forefront of all of it.
It's only the deeply discordant feelings/ideas (the stuff of suffering) that have separation at their helm, such as hatred, fundamental blame, despair, misery, a sense that what is appearing/happening is 'intolerable,' that cease to arise in SR. All other feelings and responses to what is appearing remain possible.
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Post by Esponja on Feb 19, 2021 22:22:33 GMT
Just posting this here as not sure where else to, does anyone know why I can’t all of a sudden be logged into the ST forum and this one at the same time any longer? You can If you used the same email id. Will try and change from my computer. ST was set up about 10 years ago. |
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Post by Gopal on Feb 20, 2021 12:18:54 GMT
There kinds of problem will come when you don't have the reference to what I am talking. Look like you have never used any reality creation technique so I don't wonder.Pinning pics on a vision board, depicting a finished book and publishing deal isn't a 'reality creation technique'? Envisioning the desired condition as a here and now reality isn't a creation technique? Writing out desired manifestation in full detail in a journal every night before going to sleep isn't a reality creation technique?
As I described to you already in a past post, there was a time where I did all that stuff. When my desires manifested according to plan, I assure you, I regarded those techniques to be a great success. That's where I was wrong though. The techniques themselves were not actually causal to the manifestation...it just appeared that way.
They are not deliberate creation. Deliberate creation is when you use any of the technique to create your reality. The kind of creation you are talking about need no effort from your side, desire happens and then manifestation follows. |
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Post by Gopal on Feb 20, 2021 12:19:46 GMT
I write what I see! When there is a clarity, dream is re-orchestrated. If that's all you were saying, we'd be in agreement. You go much further though.
I agree, clarity does impact experience.....precisely 'how' though, cannot be predicted with absolute certainty.
If you are in agreement, why does the clarity changes the dream? |
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Post by Gopal on Feb 20, 2021 12:21:24 GMT
Beautifully said! yes, that's what happens. I have been saying to her for years now. But I don't call it as lessons, I would like to call it as illusion that we wore unconsciously which we have been seeing through one after other. Once we see through the illusion, external changes too.Yes, and that change is 'no suffering.'
Which really means, no more imagined SVP...no more mental overlay upon an arising, appearing condition that says, "this is intolerable...this is fundamentally wrong...this should not be appearing as it is."
That is the most significant of experiential changes...it makes all others pale in comparison. Absent the SVP and that mental overlay, all conditions become fundamentally perfect.
Change soon will be reflected in your outer as well but you are foreign to that idea because you still haven't seen such a thing because you still haven't reached any kind of clarity in my opinion. You are having all ideas so far which doesn't have any power to change anything. |
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Post by Figgles on Feb 20, 2021 18:59:22 GMT
Pinning pics on a vision board, depicting a finished book and publishing deal isn't a 'reality creation technique'? Envisioning the desired condition as a here and now reality isn't a creation technique? Writing out desired manifestation in full detail in a journal every night before going to sleep isn't a reality creation technique?
As I described to you already in a past post, there was a time where I did all that stuff. When my desires manifested according to plan, I assure you, I regarded those techniques to be a great success. That's where I was wrong though. The techniques themselves were not actually causal to the manifestation...it just appeared that way.
They are not deliberate creation. Deliberate creation is when you use any of the technique to create your reality. The kind of creation you are talking about need no effort from your side, desire happens and then manifestation follows. Creating a vision board, (going out to buy a cork-board, stick-pins, cutting pics from magazines, having photos developed, drawing/painting pics to stick on the vision board) isn't what you'd call a 'technique to create your reality'?
And, the envisioning technique involved putting aside time every day to do so...the writing in journal as well. But I guess for you that is still not a 'technique'?
Can you give me an example then of what you would designate as 'a technique'?
I feel right now that you are just dismissing whatever I say in a knee-jerk fashion so you can stand upon your assertion that I have no reference for what you are talking about.
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Post by Figgles on Feb 20, 2021 19:04:25 GMT
If that's all you were saying, we'd be in agreement. You go much further though.
I agree, clarity does impact experience.....precisely 'how' though, cannot be predicted with absolute certainty.
If you are in agreement, why does the clarity changes the dream?
Because, suffering requires an imagined SVP. When the SVP is longer in play, no suffering. Same with blameful anger....requires an SVP...same with despair......a sense that life is intolerable....they go hand in hand with an imagined SVP. I'd go so far as to say that the experience OF blameful anger, despair, sense that life is intolerable or that something is fundamentally wrong, is the experience of 'separation.'
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Post by Gopal on Feb 21, 2021 1:13:03 GMT
They are not deliberate creation. Deliberate creation is when you use any of the technique to create your reality. The kind of creation you are talking about need no effort from your side, desire happens and then manifestation follows. Creating a vision board, (going out to buy a cork-board, stick-pins, cutting pics from magazines, having photos developed, drawing/painting pics to stick on the vision board) isn't what you'd call a 'technique to create your reality'?
And, the envisioning technique involved putting aside time every day to do so...the writing in journal as well. But I guess for you that is still not a 'technique'?
Can you give me an example then of what you would designate as 'a technique'?
I feel right now that you are just dismissing whatever I say in a knee-jerk fashion so you can stand upon your assertion that I have no reference for what you are talking about.
I am saying you did not use deliberate creation, and you did not. |
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Post by Gopal on Feb 21, 2021 1:13:25 GMT
If you are in agreement, why does the clarity changes the dream?
Because, suffering requires an imagined SVP. When the SVP is longer in play, no suffering. Same with blameful anger....requires an SVP...same with despair......a sense that life is intolerable....they go hand in hand with an imagined SVP. I'd go so far as to say that the experience OF blameful anger, despair, sense that life is intolerable or that something is fundamentally wrong, is the experience of 'separation.'
Who is imagining the SVP? |
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Post by Esponja on Feb 21, 2021 2:14:21 GMT
Let's explore this further. Singer is pointing to a place of awareness, i.e something beyond thoughts (which he does), he realised how ludicrous the mind is in trying to label and decide what it likes and dislikes. He's telling the seeker to figure out where that stuff comes from (it just arises from past conditioning etc). For instance, he explains in his course, that when someone was unkind to you when you were younger, perhaps they were wearing a bright yellow t-shirt, then 30 years later you are projecting onto someone on the roads who cut you up but also has a bright yellow t-shirt on, so you are triggered and without recognising all of this you are at the mercy of all of this nonsense. To recognise it and realise how amazing everything is, the illusion of control, the craziness of the mind, is to allow it all to come through you and pass instead of resisting it. He delivers his course in such a fun and eloquent way. I find it similar to many other teachings, including Tolle, who points to the ever present here and now. This kind of is what singer is saying.. love it all, watch what arises, love it and let go... surrender.. Just wanted to come back to this one;
When the seeker is trying to love it all, trying to surrender, accept, allow, what he's mistakingly aiming for, is to shift his personal dislike of a particular situation to a personal liking of the situation.
That's not what acceptance/allowance is....rather, there is an absence behind true surrender, acceptance, allowance, vs. a presence of personal likeing.
It's entirely possible for personal dislike of something to be arising, amidst fundamental acceptance. Included in fundamental acceptance is also the personal dislike. But where there is fundamental acceptance, judgements only extend so deep, because that which lies fundamental, (awakened awareness) is at the forefront of all of it.
It's only the deeply discordant feelings/ideas (the stuff of suffering) that have separation at their helm, such as hatred, fundamental blame, despair, misery, a sense that what is appearing/happening is 'intolerable,' that cease to arise in SR. All other feelings and responses to what is appearing remain possible.
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Post by Esponja on Feb 21, 2021 2:16:04 GMT
Because, suffering requires an imagined SVP. When the SVP is longer in play, no suffering. Same with blameful anger....requires an SVP...same with despair......a sense that life is intolerable....they go hand in hand with an imagined SVP. I'd go so far as to say that the experience OF blameful anger, despair, sense that life is intolerable or that something is fundamentally wrong, is the experience of 'separation.'
Who is imagining the SVP? I get stuck here too. Who 'believes' in the belief of a seperate identity. Is it another thought? It doesn't feel like it? I feel as though I have constantly been looking at it and recognise that it's not 'my thought' not 'my body' and yet the belief just seems to remain. I'd say it has less potency though. |
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Post by Esponja on Feb 21, 2021 2:24:26 GMT
What I meant by, 'the manifestation has already happened‘, I think you addressed. I feel like the future, past and present is happening, has happened. For example, I’ve had experiences of my future self bringing something into this timeline. Of course, it could be complete imagination. If that is your experience, it's your experience. As an experience, so long as it's not being mistaken for something more, something indicative of Truth beyond, there's no need to doubt it as 'an experience had.' But it is important to see that 'the future' per se, itself, is never actually experienced as all experience is here & now or not at all. Same with past. Similarly, I regularly experience continued relationship, exchanges with deceased loved ones. Many would likely say I am imagining it because it's outside of consensus trance experience. These experiences are as meaningful and compelling to me as those I had with these folks when they were alive and sitting next to me. So, while I'd balk at the suggestion I was merely 'imagining them,' I would have to concede that as experience, we are talking 'appearance only,' and not in any way indicative of Truth. (That which is known for absolute certain). Just because this current disappointment reminds you of one past, does not mean the past disappointment 'caused' this manifest outcome. (& Sorry if I am mangling what you said there). And, what feels disappointing now might turn out to be a blessing in disguise. I'm sitting smack-dab myself in circumstances surrounding my kids that had this circumstance appeared a few months ago, would have looked like a shit-pile, but at present, I am regarding, as the most perfect of circumstance. Yup! Nothing wrong with play.  I would say 'disappointment' can and does still arise, but that does not = suffering. When/if disappointment does arise, absent an SVP, it does so and then just flows on....no stickiness. So, if what is arises in this body/mind is someone who wants to use the law of attraction for a better 'perceived' life, that's just what is arising too. As long as you're not too attached to it, you just observe it. |
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