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Post by Rajagopalan on Dec 31, 2020 3:58:45 GMT
While experientially speaking, there's nothing wrong with engaging with ideas/experiences of 'this causes that,' it's important to see all experiential content for what it is--empty of Truth. This is why any undue focus spent upon trying to figure out 'why' certain people live to a ripe 'ol age and don't visibly show signs of bodily aging to the degree that others do, or why this or that condition happens to some, but not others, is ultimately, a fool's errand....a venture into delusion. The idea that being in a state where thoughts/ideas/feelings align with wholeness/Source, always and reliably 'results' in particular/specific manifestations, assumes firstly, an objective 'goodness/badness value' regarding appearing conditions and also assumes cause/effect. In clarity, both of these ideas get seen through. & really, All it takes to blow apart the 'law' assertion inherent in the claim that a light/happy attitude is responsible for those who live to be 100 and remain in good health, is one miserable 100 yr old, who looks good and is relatively healthy. It's understandable that folks might be interested in figuring out why certain conditions they deem to be positive happen to certain folks and not others, but really, looking for 'cause' of anything that happens within the dream, is misguided. That said, playing around with the correlation between focus, feelings, desires and manifestations can at times be fun. (and yes, Laughter, I'll beat you to the punch; you will very likely be able to find something I've said two years ago or previous to that, that diverges somewhat from what I'm saying here). I pretty much agree, but I thought we could explore this a little further. As I see it and have talked about it, experience doesn't contain any transcendent truth, but it does contain 'truths' about the dream itself, hence the corellation you talk about. For example, the laws of science do operate with almost 100% predictability. In this light, I got caught up at the idea of 'playing around with correlation for fun'. Perhaps one who has awakened to the truth of his being beyond physicality and has little concern for how the dream unfolds could accurately be said to be playing around, but in the context of the average LOA student (for example) the interest is really in improving quality of life, and those correlations can become hugely important to that end. FWIW, I'm not down with a positive attitude being the cause of anything even in the physical context. As a correlation, it can just as easily be a good life that leads to a good attitude rather than the reverse. I am, however, in agreement with the notion of alignment with the force of creation (assuming LOA actually teaches something similar to that), though this alignment is the result of a change of being rather than a change in something that is done (i.e. having a positive attitude). |
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Post by Gopal on Jan 2, 2021 5:43:09 GMT
Oh that's beautiful to know. I think I and Marie both are in the same boat!
You meant to say If A happened, I get angry,If B happened, then I laugh. Is this what you are saying conditioning? How can change the state of my conditioning?
Can you teach me what can I do?
I've been trying to do that. Yes, I know. But I am trying to understand the meaning of conditioning now. |
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Post by Gopal on Jan 2, 2021 5:44:04 GMT
Hi Enigma, Laffy, Figgles, I know this link is still not bolded yet. I am yet to find that. wait for me, I will fix it soon.
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Post by Enigma on Jan 2, 2021 5:52:12 GMT
I've been trying to do that. Yes, I know. But I am trying to understand the meaning of conditioning now. You can't. it's a matter of conditioning.  |
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Post by Gopal on Jan 2, 2021 6:14:51 GMT
I am not placing Consciousness as a person. But I place the Consciousness as a creator. If I consistently have some feeling in my inner, then it will manifest in the outer, this proves that Consciousness is not only the perceiver but also a creator. Not only this, even dawn of clarity changes the manifestation, that too proves that Consciousness is in-fact the creator of arising perception. Nobody's arguing that Consciousness is not the source, only that it is not a willful, purposeful creator being. I am pretty much aware of that and that's where your God has fallen into the dream comes into play. yes? |
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Post by Gopal on Jan 2, 2021 6:20:04 GMT
It's not only the watcher but creator as well. So consciousness is the cause and also the effect. Again, that sounds fine so long as there is no 'separation/personification' involved. Where is the personification involved you say? |
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Post by Gopal on Jan 2, 2021 6:21:16 GMT
What I am saying is, the entire 3 dimension world is simply arising out of Consciousness and it continue to drive the creation from there or it continue to create one perception after another from there. And the arising of the intention tells me the direction it is moving towards. Do you see anything wrong with this? I do, but I also perceive a certain futility in debating it with you.  So, I'll simply repeat: Consciousness has no cause.  So you are watching a predetermined movie? |
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Post by Gopal on Jan 2, 2021 12:16:41 GMT
Yes, I know. But I am trying to understand the meaning of conditioning now. You can't. it's a matter of conditioning. Then you asked me to change the condition to change the world, yes? Or are you saying something else? |
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Post by muttley on Jan 2, 2021 16:31:44 GMT
Yeah I do, but I also perceive a certain futility in debating it with you. So, I'll simply repeat: Consciousness has no cause. So you are watching a predetermined movie? No, that's not what I meant. |
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Post by Figgles on Jan 3, 2021 3:02:36 GMT
Again, that sounds fine so long as there is no 'separation/personification' involved. Where is the personification involved you say? It comes and goes as you post. I'll let you know next time I think I see it. |
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Post by Gopal on Jan 3, 2021 15:41:56 GMT
So you are watching a predetermined movie? No, that's not what I meant. What do you mean by ' Consciousness has no cause.'? |
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Post by Gopal on Jan 3, 2021 15:42:31 GMT
Where is the personification involved you say? It comes and goes as you post. I'll let you know next time I think I see it. Feel of separation comes and goes for you? Is that what you are saying? |
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Post by muttley on Jan 3, 2021 15:46:36 GMT
No, that's not what I meant. What do you mean by ' Consciousness has no cause.'? I mean, there is nothing that causes "Consciousness".  |
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Post by Gopal on Jan 3, 2021 15:51:45 GMT
What do you mean by ' Consciousness has no cause.'? I mean, there is nothing that causes "Consciousness". yes but consciousness is causing everything, right? |
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Post by Gopal on Jan 3, 2021 15:55:51 GMT
Yes, I know. But I am trying to understand the meaning of conditioning now. You can't. it's a matter of conditioning. You said when mary becomes aware of the mental process she could change the way things unfold for her, yes? That's the change of conditioning, yes? |
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So, I'll simply repeat: Consciousness has no cause. 
