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Post by muttley on Feb 4, 2021 16:33:29 GMT
Just saw this posted: ‘When you’re so woke, that you wake up to the realisation that being woke is just another illusion to wake up from’ 🤣 Maybe they should lay off the coffee!  |
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Post by Figgles on Feb 4, 2021 22:33:25 GMT
There are instances where explaining beliefs/point of view is absolutely fine. I think with the whole Political/Covid situation going on right now, civil dialogue, explanation of viewpoints, is more important than ever. I do notice though that Esponja characterized it as her 'mind's NEED to defend her beliefs.' Which would be appropriate IF she is experiencing a sense of resistance about engaging in such a conversation. I see far too many these days, way to ready to characterize passionate engagement in discussion of divergent views as "negative...to be avoided.....not loving.....wrong...bad...." etc. I know you Reefs have always been far too ready to slap those kinds of labels upon certain facets of experience and my advice to you is to look a little deeper; A passionate, civil discussion about opposing viewpoints does not necessarily denote mental/emotional discord or fundamental resistance to 'what is.' Passionate engagement with ideas...thought/minding, having opinions about stuff, is not the enemy....freedom from mind IS. I think many mistakingly conflate the two...when really, they could not be more different.
I see this a lot in folks who practice LOA teachings.....they are always on guard for movements of mind that they, as a person, deem to be 'bad.' It adds a whole mental overlay upon experience that is really not necessary. Being conscious will suffice just fine.
Glad I made it to the forum 😜 The way I see it is you got to allow for the spiritual journey (albeit illusion). I can hear all you say but something still doesn’t ‘remember’ it. I am therefore, very much in the Law of Attraction/power of subconscious mind part of the dream. I see so much evidence. I’m not sure how it can be explained. So much of what is discussed here goes way over my head tbh. As someone who despite practising mindfulness and self-enquiry, remains a ‘personal I’, I like Michael Singer’s approach. Notice and release your triggers. Heal. This is why I prefer not to defend myself and notice my triggers. Yes there is resistance. That’s my personal healing journey until ‘grace’ decides to give me a go. It feels like self-realized folk have forgotten the journey. Welcome Esponja!
I agree about the importance of 'allowing for the spiritual journey.' What else is there to do? There's all sorts of folks who have a conceptual grasp of nonduality only, trying valiantly to stop being a person....and that of course can't be done....& it adds all sorts of additional baggage.
There's nothing wrong with self help, new age ideas, practices that center around a person who can do stuff to make his life better. Wherever one is, that's okay. I just say, it's important to see the difference and not to mistakingly conflate in the dream ideas with Truth. Fwiw, as you explain things further, I don't see you doing that.
I always say the next best thing to waking up is living life as consciously aware of what's going on, as possible. The LOA focus, where the person and his direction of focus is posited as causal to present vibration and then, future manifestation of his desires, provides great motivation for looking at what's going on in mind. The promise of feeling good now, AND manifesting present desires in a future moment, is an enticing one for sure.
"Notice and release your triggers," and thus, choosing not to defend yourself because you feel resistance in that, is imo, a wonderful example of being present and conscious. And even if one is mostly doing that so he can feel better and/or manifest what he presently desires in a future moment, there is nothing inherently wrong with that...I would just say that if clarity/Truth is important, seeing what is actually so, it's important to be willing to look deeper into that equation.
Jed McKenna coined the term "human adulthood," which I really like. Like him, I see "human adulthood" as the next best thing to SR....if/when SR never comes about, living out life as a conscious, human adult is nothing to sneeze at.
In short, I don't have a problem with self help practices per se. It's just important that they are not conflated with Truth.
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Post by Figgles on Feb 4, 2021 22:36:30 GMT
There are instances where explaining beliefs/point of view is absolutely fine. I think with the whole Political/Covid situation going on right now, civil dialogue, explanation of viewpoints, is more important than ever. I do notice though that Esponja characterized it as her 'mind's NEED to defend her beliefs.' Which would be appropriate IF she is experiencing a sense of resistance about engaging in such a conversation. I see far too many these days, way to ready to characterize passionate engagement in discussion of divergent views as "negative...to be avoided.....not loving.....wrong...bad...." etc. I know you Reefs have always been far too ready to slap those kinds of labels upon certain facets of experience and my advice to you is to look a little deeper; A passionate, civil discussion about opposing viewpoints does not necessarily denote mental/emotional discord or fundamental resistance to 'what is.' Passionate engagement with ideas...thought/minding, having opinions about stuff, is not the enemy....freedom from mind IS. I think many mistakingly conflate the two...when really, they could not be more different.
I see this a lot in folks who practice LOA teachings.....they are always on guard for movements of mind that they, as a person, deem to be 'bad.' It adds a whole mental overlay upon experience that is really not necessary. Being conscious will suffice just fine.
Reefs is maintaining a lid on public dialog that drifts into the personally contentious, but there has been some private dialogs over there that have explored these material issues without any sort of constraints. Interesting. As you likely know, I find him far too focused upon trying to control all contention...so much so that he thwarts some really good and imo, entirely topical conversations that might otherwise arise. |
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Post by Figgles on Feb 4, 2021 22:41:04 GMT
Just saw this posted: ‘When you’re so woke, that you wake up to the realisation that being woke is just another illusion to wake up from’ 🤣 No doubt, a conceptual idea of 'being an awakened person' IS merely a conceptual idea and thus, ultimately, part and parcel of ALL ideas that needs to be seen through as empty.
When Niz said "all perceivables are stains," that includes everything...every idea....every thought....every nuanced sense...
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Post by Esponja on Feb 4, 2021 22:56:24 GMT
Glad I made it to the forum 😜 The way I see it is you got to allow for the spiritual journey (albeit illusion). I can hear all you say but something still doesn’t ‘remember’ it. I am therefore, very much in the Law of Attraction/power of subconscious mind part of the dream. I see so much evidence. I’m not sure how it can be explained. So much of what is discussed here goes way over my head tbh. As someone who despite practising mindfulness and self-enquiry, remains a ‘personal I’, I like Michael Singer’s approach. Notice and release your triggers. Heal. This is why I prefer not to defend myself and notice my triggers. Yes there is resistance. That’s my personal healing journey until ‘grace’ decides to give me a go. It feels like self-realized folk have forgotten the journey. Welcome Esponja!
I agree about the importance of 'allowing for the spiritual journey.' What else is there to do? There's all sorts of folks who have a conceptual grasp of nonduality only, trying valiantly to stop being a person....and that of course can't be done....& it adds all sorts of additional baggage.
There's nothing wrong with self help, new age ideas, practices that center around a person who can do stuff to make his life better. Wherever one is, that's okay. I just say, it's important to see the difference and not to mistakingly conflate in the dream ideas with Truth. Fwiw, as you explain things further, I don't see you doing that.
I always say the next best thing to waking up is living life as consciously aware of what's going on, as possible. The LOA focus, where the person and his direction of focus is posited as causal to present vibration and then, future manifestation of his desires, provides great motivation for looking at what's going on in mind. The promise of feeling good now, AND manifesting present desires in a future moment, is an enticing one for sure.
"Notice and release your triggers," and thus, choosing not to defend yourself because you feel resistance in that, is imo, a wonderful example of being present and conscious. And even if one is mostly doing that so he can feel better and/or manifest what he presently desires in a future moment, there is nothing inherently wrong with that...I would just say that if clarity/Truth is important, seeing what is actually so, it's important to be willing to look deeper into that equation.
Jed McKenna coined the term "human adulthood," which I really like. Like him, I see "human adulthood" as the next best thing to SR....if/when SR never comes about, living out life as a conscious, human adult is nothing to sneeze at.
In short, I don't have a problem with self help practices per se. It's just important that they are not conflated with Truth.
It’s good to have this type of forum where people can point this out. It’s quite unique actually- like an interactive satsang of sorts. I got fed up being a seeker, asking ‘who is it that gets fed up?’ Etc all the time. What I’ve noticed is that I naturally observe thoughts and triggers and when I notice one I use my tools to uncover and let it go. This practise might be the one that eventually leads to freedom. I feel more free than in the past that’s for sure. |
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Post by Figgles on Feb 4, 2021 23:28:01 GMT
Welcome Esponja!
I agree about the importance of 'allowing for the spiritual journey.' What else is there to do? There's all sorts of folks who have a conceptual grasp of nonduality only, trying valiantly to stop being a person....and that of course can't be done....& it adds all sorts of additional baggage.
There's nothing wrong with self help, new age ideas, practices that center around a person who can do stuff to make his life better. Wherever one is, that's okay. I just say, it's important to see the difference and not to mistakingly conflate in the dream ideas with Truth. Fwiw, as you explain things further, I don't see you doing that.
I always say the next best thing to waking up is living life as consciously aware of what's going on, as possible. The LOA focus, where the person and his direction of focus is posited as causal to present vibration and then, future manifestation of his desires, provides great motivation for looking at what's going on in mind. The promise of feeling good now, AND manifesting present desires in a future moment, is an enticing one for sure.
"Notice and release your triggers," and thus, choosing not to defend yourself because you feel resistance in that, is imo, a wonderful example of being present and conscious. And even if one is mostly doing that so he can feel better and/or manifest what he presently desires in a future moment, there is nothing inherently wrong with that...I would just say that if clarity/Truth is important, seeing what is actually so, it's important to be willing to look deeper into that equation.
Jed McKenna coined the term "human adulthood," which I really like. Like him, I see "human adulthood" as the next best thing to SR....if/when SR never comes about, living out life as a conscious, human adult is nothing to sneeze at.
In short, I don't have a problem with self help practices per se. It's just important that they are not conflated with Truth.
It’s good to have this type of forum where people can point this out. It’s quite unique actually- like an interactive satsang of sorts. I got fed up being a seeker, asking ‘who is it that gets fed up?’ Etc all the time. What I’ve noticed is that I naturally observe thoughts and triggers and when I notice one I use my tools to uncover and let it go. This practise might be the one that eventually leads to freedom. I feel more free than in the past that’s for sure.
That alone is huge!  |
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Post by Esponja on Feb 5, 2021 0:42:28 GMT
It’s good to have this type of forum where people can point this out. It’s quite unique actually- like an interactive satsang of sorts. I got fed up being a seeker, asking ‘who is it that gets fed up?’ Etc all the time. What I’ve noticed is that I naturally observe thoughts and triggers and when I notice one I use my tools to uncover and let it go. This practise might be the one that eventually leads to freedom. I feel more free than in the past that’s for sure.
That alone is huge! I think meditation was missing. You have to get into that subconscious. There is so much crap you’ve picked up. The modality I facilitate is spiritual, also very good for uncovering and rewiring. |
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Post by Figgles on Feb 5, 2021 3:14:53 GMT
That alone is huge! I think meditation was missing. You have to get into that subconscious. There is so much crap you’ve picked up. The modality I facilitate is spiritual, also very good for uncovering and rewiring. I'm all for meditation, again, so long as there is clarity about it....so long as it's not mistaken as a causal path to awakening.
It's important to see that even more important than the meditation itself is the presence of interest/willingness to look within, the openness to let go of what we think we currently know for certain. And of course where there is all that, meditation will happen quite naturally and with little struggle/effort. |
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Post by Esponja on Feb 11, 2021 13:34:06 GMT
Glad I made it to the forum 😜 The way I see it is you got to allow for the spiritual journey (albeit illusion). I can hear all you say but something still doesn’t ‘remember’ it. I am therefore, very much in the Law of Attraction/power of subconscious mind part of the dream. I see so much evidence. I’m not sure how it can be explained. So much of what is discussed here goes way over my head tbh. As someone who despite practising mindfulness and self-enquiry, remains a ‘personal I’, I like Michael Singer’s approach. Notice and release your triggers. Heal. This is why I prefer not to defend myself and notice my triggers. Yes there is resistance. That’s my personal healing journey until ‘grace’ decides to give me a go. It feels like self-realized folk have forgotten the journey. Welcome Esponja!
I agree about the importance of 'allowing for the spiritual journey.' What else is there to do? There's all sorts of folks who have a conceptual grasp of nonduality only, trying valiantly to stop being a person....and that of course can't be done....& it adds all sorts of additional baggage.
There's nothing wrong with self help, new age ideas, practices that center around a person who can do stuff to make his life better. Wherever one is, that's okay. I just say, it's important to see the difference and not to mistakingly conflate in the dream ideas with Truth. Fwiw, as you explain things further, I don't see you doing that.
I always say the next best thing to waking up is living life as consciously aware of what's going on, as possible. The LOA focus, where the person and his direction of focus is posited as causal to present vibration and then, future manifestation of his desires, provides great motivation for looking at what's going on in mind. The promise of feeling good now, AND manifesting present desires in a future moment, is an enticing one for sure.
"Notice and release your triggers," and thus, choosing not to defend yourself because you feel resistance in that, is imo, a wonderful example of being present and conscious. And even if one is mostly doing that so he can feel better and/or manifest what he presently desires in a future moment, there is nothing inherently wrong with that...I would just say that if clarity/Truth is important, seeing what is actually so, it's important to be willing to look deeper into that equation.
Jed McKenna coined the term "human adulthood," which I really like. Like him, I see "human adulthood" as the next best thing to SR....if/when SR never comes about, living out life as a conscious, human adult is nothing to sneeze at.
In short, I don't have a problem with self help practices per se. It's just important that they are not conflated with Truth.
I got to page 26 on the other ‘other forum about L.O.A being part of the dream thread. Is it worth perservering? I’m a Dr Joe Dispenza student. His meditations take you to a quantum field, beyond time/space and personal I, in that space you feel into what you want to desire and open your heart space. Still the dream then right?? It feels like another step on the path, it’s in a way, still about manifesting and tuning in but equally it’s about feeling so whole that you no longer feel lack. You just feel whole and complete. Love to hear your thoughts ‘Figgles’ |
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Post by Figgles on Feb 11, 2021 17:15:54 GMT
I got to page 26 on the other ‘other forum about L.O.A being part of the dream thread. Is it worth perservering? Depends on how interesting you're finding it....I'd say by the 26th page, you've likely gotten the main gist of the message that repeats for the remainder of the thread. Yes, still in the dream, still of the 'perceivable realm,'....still 'experiential,' BUT, transcendent of the relative consensus trance, and if it makes for a relatively "better" dream, I'm all for it. Really, where there is an experience largely of feeling whole and complete, it's fair to ask, "why would someone even want to wake up"? And it has been said that often those who are having the best dreams, are the least likely to be earnest and interested in seeing beyond. Fwiw, you seem genuinely open, interested in the possibility of seeing beyond the ideas you are resonating with, despite the fact that those ideas are inherent to your sense of wholeness. You of course will know better than I, but, I don't see you clinging to those ideas that make for a better dream, which is what so often happens when folks find a teaching that makes them feel good....& in terms of 'path to awakening,' the auspiciousness of that absence is about as close as you can get to one. Really though, there is no path, nothing the person can study or do, that 'causes' SR. Nothing "In" the dream, causes awakening...it's all about waking up to see the dreamscape for what it is and that necessarily means seeing from beyond. All that said, feeling whole/complete, most of the time, it could be argued, makes for such a good dream, that why would a person want anything more? And if one IS wanting something more, then in that wanting, there is obviously a sense of lack inherent in that. |
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Post by Esponja on Feb 11, 2021 23:09:16 GMT
I got to page 26 on the other ‘other forum about L.O.A being part of the dream thread. Is it worth perservering? Depends on how interesting you're finding it....I'd say by the 26th page, you've likely gotten the main gist of the message that repeats for the remainder of the thread. Yes, still in the dream, still of the 'perceivable realm,'....still 'experiential,' BUT, transcendent of the relative consensus trance, and if it makes for a relatively "better" dream, I'm all for it. Really, where there is an experience largely of feeling whole and complete, it's fair to ask, "why would someone even want to wake up"? And it has been said that often those who are having the best dreams, are the least likely to be earnest and interested in seeing beyond. Fwiw, you seem genuinely open, interested in the possibility of seeing beyond the ideas you are resonating with, despite the fact that those ideas are inherent to your sense of wholeness. You of course will know better than I, but, I don't see you clinging to those ideas that make for a better dream, which is what so often happens when folks find a teaching that makes them feel good....& in terms of 'path to awakening,' the auspiciousness of that absence is about as close as you can get to one. Really though, there is no path, nothing the person can study or do, that 'causes' SR. Nothing "In" the dream, causes awakening...it's all about waking up to see the dreamscape for what it is and that necessarily means seeing from beyond. All that said, feeling whole/complete, most of the time, it could be argued, makes for such a good dream, that why would a person want anything more? And if one IS wanting something more, then in that wanting, there is obviously a sense of lack inherent in that. I’ll attemp to answer. I have a good life. I haven’t had much trauma just a few issues with well-meaning parents and feeling depressed often myself, I looked for a better way. I then (in short) ran into this forum (ST) and my interest was peaked. I have listened to countless Satsangs etc but in the absence of a realisation I figure I may as well make the best of life and absolutely do. Something in me still ‘‘seeks’’ But I thought rather than deal with the frustration, as wanting keeps you wanting, I may as well focus on letting go of triggers and healing the gunk within. Maybe that’s my journey. I doubt I’m your typical customer. Are you familar with Michael Singer’s work. He speaks about a continual ‘letting go/surrendering’. It is a practise though. I’ve been doing some breathwork lately and today I really felt like my mind /thoughts were somewhere else and that they were there to help me but I needed to become their master. |
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Post by Figgles on Feb 12, 2021 4:08:20 GMT
Depends on how interesting you're finding it....I'd say by the 26th page, you've likely gotten the main gist of the message that repeats for the remainder of the thread. Yes, still in the dream, still of the 'perceivable realm,'....still 'experiential,' BUT, transcendent of the relative consensus trance, and if it makes for a relatively "better" dream, I'm all for it. Really, where there is an experience largely of feeling whole and complete, it's fair to ask, "why would someone even want to wake up"? And it has been said that often those who are having the best dreams, are the least likely to be earnest and interested in seeing beyond. Fwiw, you seem genuinely open, interested in the possibility of seeing beyond the ideas you are resonating with, despite the fact that those ideas are inherent to your sense of wholeness. You of course will know better than I, but, I don't see you clinging to those ideas that make for a better dream, which is what so often happens when folks find a teaching that makes them feel good....& in terms of 'path to awakening,' the auspiciousness of that absence is about as close as you can get to one. Really though, there is no path, nothing the person can study or do, that 'causes' SR. Nothing "In" the dream, causes awakening...it's all about waking up to see the dreamscape for what it is and that necessarily means seeing from beyond. All that said, feeling whole/complete, most of the time, it could be argued, makes for such a good dream, that why would a person want anything more? And if one IS wanting something more, then in that wanting, there is obviously a sense of lack inherent in that. I’ll attemp to answer. I have a good life. I haven’t had much trauma just a few issues with well-meaning parents and feeling depressed often myself, I looked for a better way. I then (in short) ran into this forum (ST) and my interest was peaked. I have listened to countless Satsangs etc but in the absence of a realisation I figure I may as well make the best of life and absolutely do. Something in me still ‘‘seeks’’ But I thought rather than deal with the frustration, as wanting keeps you wanting, I may as well focus on letting go of triggers and healing the gunk within. Maybe that’s my journey. I doubt I’m your typical customer. Are you familar with Michael Singer’s work. He speaks about a continual ‘letting go/surrendering’. It is a practise though. I’ve been doing some breathwork lately and today I really felt like my mind /thoughts were somewhere else and that they were there to help me but I needed to become their master. Sounds very sane, mature and conscious. |
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Post by Esponja on Feb 12, 2021 7:15:13 GMT
I’ll attemp to answer. I have a good life. I haven’t had much trauma just a few issues with well-meaning parents and feeling depressed often myself, I looked for a better way. I then (in short) ran into this forum (ST) and my interest was peaked. I have listened to countless Satsangs etc but in the absence of a realisation I figure I may as well make the best of life and absolutely do. Something in me still ‘‘seeks’’ But I thought rather than deal with the frustration, as wanting keeps you wanting, I may as well focus on letting go of triggers and healing the gunk within. Maybe that’s my journey. I doubt I’m your typical customer. Are you familar with Michael Singer’s work. He speaks about a continual ‘letting go/surrendering’. It is a practise though. I’ve been doing some breathwork lately and today I really felt like my mind /thoughts were somewhere else and that they were there to help me but I needed to become their master. Sounds very sane, mature and conscious. 😊 |
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Post by muttley on Feb 12, 2021 13:42:27 GMT
Depends on how interesting you're finding it....I'd say by the 26th page, you've likely gotten the main gist of the message that repeats for the remainder of the thread. Yes, still in the dream, still of the 'perceivable realm,'....still 'experiential,' BUT, transcendent of the relative consensus trance, and if it makes for a relatively "better" dream, I'm all for it. Really, where there is an experience largely of feeling whole and complete, it's fair to ask, "why would someone even want to wake up"? And it has been said that often those who are having the best dreams, are the least likely to be earnest and interested in seeing beyond. Fwiw, you seem genuinely open, interested in the possibility of seeing beyond the ideas you are resonating with, despite the fact that those ideas are inherent to your sense of wholeness. You of course will know better than I, but, I don't see you clinging to those ideas that make for a better dream, which is what so often happens when folks find a teaching that makes them feel good....& in terms of 'path to awakening,' the auspiciousness of that absence is about as close as you can get to one. Really though, there is no path, nothing the person can study or do, that 'causes' SR. Nothing "In" the dream, causes awakening...it's all about waking up to see the dreamscape for what it is and that necessarily means seeing from beyond. All that said, feeling whole/complete, most of the time, it could be argued, makes for such a good dream, that why would a person want anything more? And if one IS wanting something more, then in that wanting, there is obviously a sense of lack inherent in that. I’ll attemp to answer. I have a good life. I haven’t had much trauma just a few issues with well-meaning parents and feeling depressed often myself, I looked for a better way. I then (in short) ran into this forum (ST) and my interest was peaked. I have listened to countless Satsangs etc but in the absence of a realisation I figure I may as well make the best of life and absolutely do. Something in me still ‘‘seeks’’ But I thought rather than deal with the frustration, as wanting keeps you wanting, I may as well focus on letting go of triggers and healing the gunk within. Maybe that’s my journey. I doubt I’m your typical customer. Are you familar with Michael Singer’s work. He speaks about a continual ‘letting go/surrendering’. It is a practise though. I’ve been doing some breathwork lately and today I really felt like my mind /thoughts were somewhere else and that they were there to help me but I needed to become their master. It might be that there's nothing left for you to realize at this point. Are you familiar with the idea of "known knowns" and "known unknowns"?
Everyone already knows the existential truth, that there is no separation, no limitation, it's just that it's subconscious. It's an "unknown known".
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Post by muttley on Feb 12, 2021 14:02:20 GMT
Sounds very sane, mature and conscious. 😊 ha! ha! this is a place where that is an insult!  |
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