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Post by Figgles on Jan 20, 2021 22:26:15 GMT
No, I still don't agree with the idea of "a creator who is hidden in you", that "won't accept this" and that then creates a situation that evolves towards personal liking.
It simply imagining the rollercoaster all the time. When we are in the low side of the rollercoaster, we see like something is missing, so we are desiring it, and you have the hope that that will be resolved oneday. But what's actually happening here is, you are actually in the low side and what you see as a missing part is part of the necessary story. If you are wishing for something, then it would continue to create similar story and you are not allowing your rollercoaster to fall into the proper rhythm. Accepting the situation means you are not expecting any change really, not even unconsciously. There are certain illusion which I have seen through but you did not. Remember acceptance is not something we can do. You don't see through illusion by engaging/looking at story content from within the story. And that's what you're doing when you insist that you know how consciousness creates.
The roller-coaster's movements are not a problem once the SVP has been seen through. That whole propensity to look 'at' the content of the unfolding story to ascertain why what is appearing IS appearing, is a fool's errand...it has nothing at all to do with being free. Being free means regardless of what the story is serving up, there is abiding groundedness in being and thus, no fundamental pushing against the story.
Expectation, intent towards an imagined future, is all part and parcel of the story/dream and not at all a problem so long as that groundedness in being abides.
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Post by Gopal on Jan 23, 2021 5:08:38 GMT
No, that's wrong. You are creating the dream while it moves on. When one thinks that this is moving to the desired reality, that's where you are arresting the creator to create the same again and again. What's wrong? That true lies beyond any-one, any-thing that supposedly watches, creates, intends?
That watching, creating, intending are all appearance only?
From 'within the dream' that will 'seem' wrong....to see the Truth being pointed at, you have to see 'beyond the dream.'
You are watching the dream doesn't require a big effort, it's easy. But you are creating the dream require a direct seeing. |
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Post by Gopal on Jan 23, 2021 5:10:00 GMT
If he says he has seen through the illusion of personal self-hood, then he is also saying that nobody is responsible for what's happening, eh? Yes. But the problem ensues with taking one's words as evidence that he is truly assigning fundamental blame. I agree, it 'sounds' at times like that's what ZD is doing, but ultimately, I can't be certain just by going off his written word. I can be sure! When one is proclaiming that he has attained a kind of realization and he continue to do things which are opposed to his realization, it is very sure that something goes wrong. |
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Post by Gopal on Jan 23, 2021 5:11:40 GMT
There are no laws. We are considering the way Consciousness creates as Laws. It creates the gravity in it's perception every time, so we are considering that as a law. So it never creates like figgles is flying, likewise, there are certain ways Consciousness always creates this reality. Like gravity, If you visualize, then it would create the desired reality in your world, that's you consider as another law like gravity.
You are saying there is no law, I am saying the way it creates I am considering that as a law. If you say 'no', then try flying and show me.
Therein lies the problem. It's only an SVP that thinks it can figure out 'the way Consciousness creates.' The very question of 'how does consciousness create' is misconceived. Any answer you come up with is 'in the dream'....'of the realm of the SVP' only. "Truth" does not address such questions....other than illuminating them as misconceived.
It require a direct that you are actually creating the dream. It's not easy to see. It's also a kind of direct seeing that you are creating the dream.
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Post by Gopal on Jan 23, 2021 5:18:44 GMT
If you can accept your difficult situation, then it's not a difficult situation. And the problem is already resolved when you accept it. So the fabricated events has lost the power and it will be collapsed. No, if you can accept a difficult situation, there will not be suffering. The downs/dips of the roller-coaster do not cease altogether when accepted, they just no longer dip down into 'fundamental resistance/suffering.'
All our conversation ends up in the place where you have directly seen or not. It seems to be you haven't seen anything bigger like ZD. So whatever I talk here doesn't make any sense to you.
I never said that roller-coaster will cease to exist. Consciousness continue to create rollercoaster forever, it dips very deep or not depends upon how we see the roller-coaster. If one tries to force the happiness side of the roller-coaster, then he has to dip more when he comes to unhappiness side of the roller-coaster. Once one sees through the illusion, At first there is a inner change, it will place you into the mode where you don't need any outer world change but sooner you may notice that all fabricated outer world gets collapsed. If you haven't seen this, It's 100 percent sure that you still haven't had bigger realization towards the reality.
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Post by Gopal on Jan 23, 2021 5:37:08 GMT
No, what you are doing is clear! you got the money when you sell the e-book, eh? What I was asking is, how come whatsapp is earning money while it's not doing any advertisement?And my answer was and still is.. .I don't know.ok |
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Post by Gopal on Jan 23, 2021 5:39:19 GMT
It simply imagining the rollercoaster all the time. When we are in the low side of the rollercoaster, we see like something is missing, so we are desiring it, and you have the hope that that will be resolved oneday. But what's actually happening here is, you are actually in the low side and what you see as a missing part is part of the necessary story. If you are wishing for something, then it would continue to create similar story and you are not allowing your rollercoaster to fall into the proper rhythm. Accepting the situation means you are not expecting any change really, not even unconsciously. There are certain illusion which I have seen through but you did not. Remember acceptance is not something we can do. You don't see through illusion by engaging/looking at story content from within the story. And that's what you're doing when you insist that you know how consciousness creates.
The roller-coaster's movements are not a problem once the SVP has been seen through. That whole propensity to look 'at' the content of the unfolding story to ascertain why what is appearing IS appearing, is a fool's errand...it has nothing at all to do with being free. Being free means regardless of what the story is serving up, there is abiding groundedness in being and thus, no fundamental pushing against the story.
Expectation, intent towards an imagined future, is all part and parcel of the story/dream and not at all a problem so long as that groundedness in being abides.
Then you are still missing something. Any expectation or expecting any kind of desirable mind state or desirable change is still an illusion. Universe is creating right now in this moment, it doesn't need to go from A to B. |
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Post by Figgles on Jan 23, 2021 19:33:48 GMT
What's wrong? That true lies beyond any-one, any-thing that supposedly watches, creates, intends?
That watching, creating, intending are all appearance only?
From 'within the dream' that will 'seem' wrong....to see the Truth being pointed at, you have to see 'beyond the dream.'
You are watching the dream doesn't require a big effort, it's easy. But you are creating the dream require a direct seeing. Direct seeing is NOT "realization."
Realization is always a seeing through....a subtraction of previous knowledge....an unknowing.....a seeing of what is NOT so.
As I've said before, I have no issue with talking about sequential unfolding story/experience and the ways in which thoughts, beliefs, feeling "correlate" with subsequent manifestation. It's important to see though that we're talking 'correlation only' and not causation. LOA posits causation.
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Post by Figgles on Jan 23, 2021 19:43:03 GMT
Yes. But the problem ensues with taking one's words as evidence that he is truly assigning fundamental blame. I agree, it 'sounds' at times like that's what ZD is doing, but ultimately, I can't be certain just by going off his written word. I can be sure! When one is proclaiming that he has attained a kind of realization and he continue to do things which are opposed to his realization, it is very sure that something goes wrong. What things? |
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Post by Figgles on Jan 23, 2021 19:50:12 GMT
Therein lies the problem. It's only an SVP that thinks it can figure out 'the way Consciousness creates.' The very question of 'how does consciousness create' is misconceived. Any answer you come up with is 'in the dream'....'of the realm of the SVP' only. "Truth" does not address such questions....other than illuminating them as misconceived.
It require a direct that you are actually creating the dream. It's not easy to see. It's also a kind of direct seeing that you are creating the dream.
You are only imagining 'a something that creates the dream' and you are mistaken that you are directly seeing such. An entity that creates is 'an illusion,' as is 'actual causation between dream appearances.'
And again, direct seeing is NOT "realization." Realization is always non-conceptual and requires pointers to try to talk about it.
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Post by Figgles on Jan 23, 2021 20:30:18 GMT
No, if you can accept a difficult situation, there will not be suffering. The downs/dips of the roller-coaster do not cease altogether when accepted, they just no longer dip down into 'fundamental resistance/suffering.'
All our conversation ends up in the place where you have directly seen or not. It seems to be you haven't seen anything bigger like ZD. So whatever I talk here doesn't make any sense to you.
I never said that roller-coaster will cease to exist. Consciousness continue to create rollercoaster forever, it dips very deep or not depends upon how we see the roller-coaster. If one tries to force the happiness side of the roller-coaster, then he has to dip more when he comes to unhappiness side of the roller-coaster. Once one sees through the illusion, At first there is a inner change, it will place you into the mode where you don't need any outer world change but sooner you may notice that all fabricated outer world gets collapsed. If you haven't seen this, It's 100 percent sure that you still haven't had bigger realization towards the reality.
No....All our conversations end up in the place where there's either been a realization/seeing through of the SVP or not.
When the SVP is truly absent (which is different from a mere conceptual idea about there being no SVP) you stop looking TO experience for Truth.
You are mistaking what seems to you to be "a direct experience" with realization/Truth. What you're doing is applying a mental overlay, mind's conclusion TO experience/appearances.
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Post by Figgles on Jan 23, 2021 20:47:55 GMT
You don't see through illusion by engaging/looking at story content from within the story. And that's what you're doing when you insist that you know how consciousness creates.
The roller-coaster's movements are not a problem once the SVP has been seen through. That whole propensity to look 'at' the content of the unfolding story to ascertain why what is appearing IS appearing, is a fool's errand...it has nothing at all to do with being free. Being free means regardless of what the story is serving up, there is abiding groundedness in being and thus, no fundamental pushing against the story.
Expectation, intent towards an imagined future, is all part and parcel of the story/dream and not at all a problem so long as that groundedness in being abides.
Then you are still missing something. Any expectation or expecting any kind of desirable mind state or desirable change is still an illusion. Universe is creating right now in this moment, it doesn't need to go from A to B. Expectation itself, re: how things will unfold, is not an illusion. It's an appearance within the dream. It's an arising facet of experience and expectation as an arising facet of experience, does not have illusion as it's basis.
Absolute certainty about how things will unfold, on the other hand, IS based upon a delusion....a mistake of mind that says that past experience can be relied upon to predict with absolutely certainty, how the story will move. And that's really what you are relying upon when you say you've observed your experience and have seen that when you accept an appearing condition, that basic appearing condition always disappears.
When you insist that current conditions that are not personally liked, will for certain, move into conditions that are personally liked once they are accepted, you are demonstrating that delusion.
Realizing the Truth does not change the basic condition that is appearing, it changes the way the condition is regarded...how it is seen.
For example, A dude who becomes paralyzed in a fall from a cliff and can no longer walk, who accepts his condition, will not necessarily regain his ability to walk just because he accepts the situation. And accepting the situation does not mean that given the choice, he'd still prefer it if he could walk, it just means that his peace does not depend upon being able to walk.
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Post by Figgles on Jan 23, 2021 20:53:27 GMT
You don't see through illusion by engaging/looking at story content from within the story. And that's what you're doing when you insist that you know how consciousness creates.
The roller-coaster's movements are not a problem once the SVP has been seen through. That whole propensity to look 'at' the content of the unfolding story to ascertain why what is appearing IS appearing, is a fool's errand...it has nothing at all to do with being free. Being free means regardless of what the story is serving up, there is abiding groundedness in being and thus, no fundamental pushing against the story.
Expectation, intent towards an imagined future, is all part and parcel of the story/dream and not at all a problem so long as that groundedness in being abides.
Then you are still missing something. Any expectation or expecting any kind of desirable mind state or desirable change is still an illusion. Universe is creating right now in this moment, it doesn't need to go from A to B. Yes! Right now in this moment, whatever is appearing, is not caused by or created by anything that supposedly happened 'before.' If you truly saw that creation is HERE....NOW.... you'd stop talking about how acceptance in this moment 'creates' the content of the next moment. |
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Post by Gopal on Jan 24, 2021 3:04:11 GMT
You are watching the dream doesn't require a big effort, it's easy. But you are creating the dream require a direct seeing. Direct seeing is NOT "realization."
Realization is always a seeing through....a subtraction of previous knowledge....an unknowing.....a seeing of what is NOT so.
As I've said before, I have no issue with talking about sequential unfolding story/experience and the ways in which thoughts, beliefs, feeling "correlate" with subsequent manifestation. It's important to see though that we're talking 'correlation only' and not causation. LOA posits causation.
My point was you still do not know that you are creating the dream. That need a direct seeing. You simply can't assume. |
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Post by Gopal on Jan 24, 2021 3:05:23 GMT
I can be sure! When one is proclaiming that he has attained a kind of realization and he continue to do things which are opposed to his realization, it is very sure that something goes wrong. What things? ZD says personal self-hood is illusion but gets angry. When one says personal self-hood is illusion he can't find blame in others. |
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